Does UB need an Improved Home Schedule?

[SGBull]

Just now, dutchcountry7 said:

When he says that he is being a little lose with the term 'good'.  By that definition, he wouldn't consider any of the MAC schools to be good.

 

 

I agree with him. I think you are overvaluing the name brand of MAC schools. Let’s use Siena as an example. Do you really think that they would have a larger crowd if they had Bowling Green visit compared to Dartmouth? I grew up near Albany and i can tell you for a fact that no one there cares any more about MAC schools than they do about any other small or mid major basketball teams.

[dutchcountry7]

24 minutes ago, SGBull said:

I agree with him. I think you are overvaluing the name brand of MAC schools. Let’s use Siena as an example. Do you really think that they would have a larger crowd if they had Bowling Green visit compared to Dartmouth? I grew up near Albany and i can tell you for a fact that no one there cares any more about MAC schools than they do about any other small or mid major basketball teams.

We are not talking about bringing people off the street.  Syracuse, Duke, Kansas will bring people off the street.  We are talking about people who know about UB and have been to a game in their life but are not regulars.  People who would call themselves UB fans but they aren't the die-hards.  These are the people who will come out for competitive games.  They are not the ones that are going to some out to just see any game UB plays.

For many people, the excitement of basketball is not in their team winning but in the back and forth drama that takes place in a game.  There is a significant difference in the challenge Bowling Green offers compared to that of Dartmouth and people know it.  The more of the Dartmouth types you have at home and the more it hurts your draw.

[UB05]

1 hour ago, dutchcountry7 said:

The team beat Arizona last year and returned all the star power. 

The second game of the year was a win over ranked West Virginia.

Every season has seen a steady rise in attendance.  It also coincides with how the teams tend to get better as the season progresses and the most meaningful games are late in the year.

Why did it take so long for the attendance to follow?  Isn't it curious how the attendance saw a rise as the competitive games started to happen.

Remember when football had a big win and then everyone turned out for Army?  Why did it take the basketball team so long to attract fans?  If better teams were being played the people would have come out sooner.

Tell me, what do you think the lowest attendance will be next year?  How many will turn out next year to see a team like St. Francis or Dartmouth?  You still expecting 6,500?

You know these games you’re quoting were without students in session, right?

[UB05]

For those who want UB to schedule higher quality opponents, keep winning and it will happen. Big programs are willing to risk losing to good/great teams. They are unwilling to risk losing to an average mid major. If 3 years from now we continue to dominate the MAC, I guarantee the team starts to pull in deals with higher quality opponents.

[dutchcountry7]

3 minutes ago, UB05 said:

If 3 years from now we continue to dominate the MAC, I guarantee the team starts to pull in deals with higher quality opponents.

Let's quantify this so we can test against your hypothesis.

What do you mean by dominate the MAC?  Has Buffalo been dominating the MAC the last few years?  What metrics do they have to hit to meet this criteria?

What are you defining as higher quality competition?  Games in Alumni Arena with Vermont, Belmont, and Loyola?  Or games in Alumni Arena with Duke and Kansas?

 

[dutchcountry7]

9 minutes ago, UB05 said:

You know these games you’re quoting were without students in session, right?

November 6 was not a student break. 

[promotherobot]

Didn't the MAC Commissioner hint that he was working on a challenge series with another similar conference?  Also couldn't UB seek more home-and-homes, especially with some of the other good mid-majors who can't games? Wofford comes to mind.

[UB05]

8 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Let's quantify this so we can test against your hypothesis.

What do you mean by dominate the MAC?  Has Buffalo been dominating the MAC the last few years?  What metrics do they have to hit to meet this criteria?

What are you defining as higher quality competition?  Games in Alumni Arena with Vermont, Belmont, and Loyola?  Or games in Alumni Arena with Duke and Kansas?

 

Continue to win 25+ games per year and make the ncaa tournament. 

Schedule home and home with teams from A10, AAC, possibly big east if we’re lucky.

does that quantify my hypothesis enough for you?

[121Merrimac]

This. ☝️

Try to schedule teams in the conference you hope to jump to.  Determine if you are a worthwhile member.  Obviously they wouldn’t all be in Alunmi. 

[rma]

3 hours ago, Jeseph said:

Which one of these teams do casual fans care about....?

Probably get the students out for Drake until they hear that it's the basketball team and not the rapper.  Imagine DRAKE AT ALUMNI ARENA vs UB Bulls.

2 hours ago, Jeseph said:

I have never once attended a sporting event because of my team's opponent.

I took off the Friday that WBB played Stanford partially because it was Stanford.  I think out of the last 3 seasons I went to the day game twice.  If it's a Pac 12 school, I'm showing up no matter what.  If it's D3 West Central Pennsyltucky Tech, I'll go if I have extra days to use or if it's slow at work.  But that's the exception to the rule - if it's a night game I'll show up for Pennsyltucky Tech no matter what.

 

[mikescherrer8]

Alas, another clusterfuck that's irrelevant to the actual thread. 

[promotherobot]

1 hour ago, UB05 said:

Continue to win 25+ games per year and make the ncaa tournament. 

Schedule home and home with teams from A10, AAC, possibly big east if we’re lucky.

does that quantify my hypothesis enough for you?

You act like Oats hasn't tried to get games from those conferences. He's lucky to have anyone play him at their home much less ours. No one is withholding your candy.

[UB05]

24 minutes ago, promotherobot said:

You act like Oats hasn't tried to get games from those conferences. He's lucky to have anyone play him at their home much less ours. No one is withholding your candy.

🤦🏼‍♂️ Are people even reading what I’m writing?

[John]

3 hours ago, UBigbobby said:

This is all such nonsense.  You keep screaming, "UB NEEDS TO PLAY BETTER TEAMS AT HOME!!!".  And we're all like, "Yea, that would be great, I agree, but no one will come here and Nate has been trying."  And your response is just, "YEA, BUT UB NEEDS TO PLAY BETTER TEAMS AT HOME!!!".  Get off it man.  We ALL want better home games, but they simply have not been there for the taking.  Do you realize we were the first ranked team to play in most other MAC arenas in literally a decade or two?  You want better mid major games at home...yea...well so do those better mid majors!! 

This has been the debate and the reality of what has happened in trying to schedule good quality teams at home. It would be great if all the UB home games were against high profile teams . As long as we have a competitive team with some exciting players and win games I think the fans will turn out. The passionate fans that have supported UB for years like our family will continue to come to home games regardless of the opponent but I do agree in the perfect world it would be great if we have a stacked quality home schedule. Go Bulls!!!!!

[dutchcountry7]

2 hours ago, UB05 said:

Continue to win 25+ games per year and make the ncaa tournament. 

Schedule home and home with teams from A10, AAC, possibly big east if we’re lucky.

does that quantify my hypothesis enough for you?

So this only applies if our Bulls makes the NCAA tournament every year and also wins 25 or more games each year for the next three years?

 

[UB05]

12 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

So this only applies if our Bulls makes the NCAA tournament every year and also wins 25 or more games each year for the next three years?

 

You can disagree with me without being an asshole you know.

[dutchcountry7]

Just now, UB05 said:

You can disagree with me without being an asshole you know.

I am being serious here.  I want to understand what you think it would take to get A10, American and other higher level conference teams (not Bonas) to come in. 

I want to have actual definitions so we can look back on this.  I would be glad to be wrong and Alumni be hosting big games in three years.  I just don't think it is going to happen.  It isn't like it was in the 90s.

[UB05]

5 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I am being serious here.  I want to understand what you think it would take to get A10, American and other higher level conference teams (not Bonas) to come in. 

I want to have actual definitions so we can look back on this.  I would be glad to be wrong and Alumni be hosting big games in three years.  I just don't think it is going to happen.  It isn't like it was in the 90s.

Consistent winning. A mid major team that wins every year like saint Mary’s gets home and homes with PAC 12 teams and neutral court games with SEC teams.  

[UBigbobby]

2 minutes ago, dutchcountry7 said:

I am being serious here.  I want to understand what you think it would take to get A10, American and other higher level conference teams (not Bonas) to come in. 

I want to have actual definitions so we can look back on this.  I would be glad to be wrong and Alumni be hosting big games in three years.  I just don't think it is going to happen.  It isn't like it was in the 90s.

I don't think you can, at least not with any sort of regularity.  There will occasionally be a UCONN or Pitt (when they were very good) that will do it because they want a few "easy" road wins.  Best that you can hope for is some bigger programs willing to have UB go there to play, and then maybe finding a few better mid-majors like Southern Illinois, San Fran, etc. to come to Alumni.  You're simply not going to get Cinci, Houston, UCF, etc to come to UB with much regularity IMO.  There's little reason for them to. Those AAC teams need to build their own tournament resumes by playing power conference teams, not go on the road to UB unless you know UB is going to be ranked.  This year people thought UB would be good for a mid major, but not this good.  

[UB05]

If we’re a power mid major consistently we shouldn’t have a problem getting home and homes with teams like Dayton or St Louis. It gives both programs an opportunity for a high quality win and a loss wouldn’t be damaging to the resume. 

Edit: it may be a few years away but we can get there 

Edited March 19, 2019 by UB05
Added

[DooleyBull06]

4 minutes ago, UB05 said:

If we’re a power mid major consistently we shouldn’t have a problem getting home and homes with teams like Dayton or St Louis. It gives both programs an opportunity for a high quality win and a loss wouldn’t be damaging to the resume. 

Edit: it may be a few years away but we can get there 

Just look at Gonzaga...how often do they get big teams to play them at home.  Rarely. They have to go to neutral sites. So lets just face reality here...no one wants to come to UB to play us.  We can get crap teams but forget P6 teams coming to town.  Next year we can face some really good teams in the Charleston Classic.  And Nate slipped up and said that in 2020 we will be in a similar style tournament with a good field.  Non conference tournaments are important going forward. They grow the program and give exposure nation wide.  The MAC commish also said he's working on a conference versus conference type deal.  That's also important.  And building local rivalries will be huge too.  The final component is not being afraid to go on the road.  I don't back down from a challenge.  I don't mind playing 2-3 road games against powers like Wofford.  Obviously we should do what we can to get teams to come here (scheduling a home and home) but realistically we can count on a team just coming to town for a one game situation.  

[BrooklynBull]

2 hours ago, UB05 said:

Consistent winning. A mid major team that wins every year like saint Mary’s gets home and homes with PAC 12 teams and neutral court games with SEC teams.  

St. Mary's gets games against PAC 12 (the only conference with a number in the title that can count) teams, did you notice that they are located just through the tunnel out of Oakland on I-80 headed to New Jersey?  They are in the  middle of the PAC 12.

Lots of scheduling is geographic.  That is why it is hard to New York City area teams to go to Buffalo.  Why fly or bus and have to spend money for a hotel when you could get to a game on the subway?

The neutral court games are tournament games and an SEC happens to be in the same tournament.

[ed]

1 hour ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Just look at Gonzaga...how often do they get big teams to play them at home.  Rarely. They have to go to neutral sites. So lets just face reality here...no one wants to come to UB to play us.  

They sometimes get big teams - they play the Pac12 a decent amount. But on top of that, they regularly get solid teams, even if they're not big names. 

Nobody is saying that we're going to regularly  get good teams right away, but all the solid mid majors seem to complain about scheduling - there seems to be a simple, obvious solution there. Like SIU - fine, neither team wanted to commit to being the 2nd year of a home/home in case the other sucked next year. How about we do the same year home / home like we did, but then commit to a home/home 2/3 yrs out? Use some imagination here, share some risk, and lock down something better than lemoyne. 

 

[BrooklynBull]

5 minutes ago, ed said:

2 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said:

Just look at Gonzaga...how often do they get big teams to play them at home.  Rarely. They have to go to neutral sites. So lets just face reality here...no one wants to come to UB to play us.  

They sometimes get big teams - they play the Pac12 a decent amount. But on top of that, they regularly get solid teams, even if they're not big names. 

Other than Washington and Washington State, both in state rivals, do they really get that many PAC 12 teams in?

[ed]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBull said:

Other than Washington and Washington State, both in state rivals, do they really get that many PAC 12 teams in?

first, were washington and washington st rivals before they got any good (no)?  i.e. would syr come here if we actually had a consistently hot program?  maybe. certainly more likely than now. so you can't poopoo those games away because they're in state - they earned those rivalries.  (and i'd say the same about the nyc programs - whoop a couple of those in the tournament a few times, and waalaa, rivals in the making.  ;D) but yeah, they play mostly wash, wash st.  from the pac 12, iirc, az and ucla went up pretty recently. and of course they get games with acc, big east, etc schools that we'd love to get.