UBinMD Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 minute ago, MuchMany said: A colleague of mine who played AAU with Zachary for a long time described him as "a bad guy." So there's that. Also the Chanse Robinson saga that appears to have continued after his time here. Seems like this staff may have walked the line between giving kids a chance and inviting trouble. Wasn't Robinson an Oats recruit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, UBinMD said: Wasn't Robinson an Oats recruit? He was not. Class of 2020, same as Zachary. Edited March 15, 2023 by MuchMany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique14150 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, MuchMany said: A colleague of mine who played AAU with Zachary for a long time described him as "a bad guy." So there's that. Also the Chanse Robinson saga that appears to have continued after his time here. Seems like this staff may have walked the line between giving kids a chance and inviting trouble. Good point - I forgot about Chanse Robinson, that was messed up. Did he even ever get here? He was supposed to, then covid hit, then he decommitted, I don't remember the full story. I do feel that starting with Hurley, and continuing with Oats, they took chances on some guys that Reggie and others wouldn't have touched. Justin Moss, Raheem Johnson come to mind. I heard once that Boise State's football team was built around taking guys from California that the programs down there wouldn't take on. I suppose at this level, some are willing to take risks on guys who are talented but there's a reason the bigger programs didn't take them. I would love to be able to balance this out with a story or two of a guy who had problems, but came here and grew up and became a better person because of this. Not one that continued and fell through the cracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, enrique14150 said: One of the toughest things for us as fans, in terms of evaluating how the players are doing, is we only see the games. I suppose there are some insiders that might see practice, or know how guys practice, I don't know - I'm not one of them. We see someone doing badly in a game and wonder why so and so isn't playing instead- maybe they look worse in practice. I don't know who's a problem and who is coachable. I don't know what they're working on and who practices hard and who's picking things up and improving. I've come to try to appreciate what I can't and don't know. I do agree with you. As fans and supporters of our teams we give our opinions on many different fronts. Some of course is out of frustration and disappointment on wins and losses. Some of us have followed basketball all our lives, played the game, coached the game and even were basketball officials. Some of our opinions are from our past experiences, from facts given to us by fans on this forum. So many times we hear media opinions and of course coach speak. My opinion on practice is yes it is important on being comfortable and confident on what to do on the court. But so much changes during the course of the game and how players respond determines success and failure. Yes it is important to have good practices but even if the star players have bad practices they are not going to get less playing time and if your 2nd/3rd string players have great practices that will not always translate to significant playing time. When Reggie was our coach we heard until we were sick of hearing about players that they were great in practice and then did not have good games. One last note there was a very good player that was asked about practice and we all know what is answer was to that although I don’t totally agree with him. Still looking forward to next year for a new start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, MuchMany said: He was not. Class of 2020, same as Zachary. Seems a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, enrique14150 said: Regarding Rachel Lenzi's article - I agree with some of it. I agree with a lot of her statistical breakdown. They were interestingly/curiously/frustratingly very good in some ratings (scoring, assists, steals) but very bad in others (points allowed per game, turnovers). It all leads to where they ended up in the end. The questions about the culture - it was entirely fair to criticize them for cutting a corner in recruiting Mballa. If we're going to continue to laugh at a certain place about a forged welding certificate, this is fair game too. But I don't want to put the Malik Zachary thing on anyone but Malik Zachary and anyone else who was there. I don't recall him bringing in a previous character issue; it wasn't an official team event; there are reasons that got out of hand and it was dealt with appropriately. I don't see how that reflects badly on the program or the coach, I'm not sure what else they could've done. It was bad, it was unfortunate, the people involved were dealt with, they moved on. If there are further issues about the culture of the team, I plead ignorance but I'm all ears. Recruiting - criticism of the recruiting for incoming players next year is absolutely warranted. That had to be a big red flag, okay this was a transition season but where was this going? They had a small senior class this year because they had a huge one last year. Without knowing some specifics as to why some guys left (besides leveraging this for a better opportunity elsewhere like Skogman did), how often are guys transferring and it's about what they want to do, not the program? She kinda painted a picture of a team where people didn't want to play...but from my seat way up in 113 I saw a team that fought pretty hard every game. The latest example being that Miami game, down 9 at half, in a game they didn't really need, and they turned it around and won. The games they lost were largely a matter of a difference in talent, not effort. To me that's where the recruiting has to get better, and that criticism felt valid. Changes over the years - I dispute the idea that it was "raucous" in the previous years. There were a lot more people there, but most of them didn't do anything. Today's students sit on their hands or glare at their phones, they don't see it as much of a participatory endeavor as before. As some other people have noted - this is a Bills town first and foremost. Even with a more attractive product this year, the Sabres have a lot of empty seats. UB at best comes in third place. A lot of people showed up because they were really good - the shine was always going to wear off that, and you were always going to see who were the folks just showing up to check it out and be along for the ride, and who were the ones who love going to games and are with it no matter what. Yes, UB has played some big teams but they never get to play them here. I struggle to call Bona "big" (they're not) but those games had a lot more energy in the building, so do Friday night MAC games against Kent or Akron. The program didn't do much until MAC play to market the games; they still have ZERO idea how to bring any collegiate atmosphere to the one-third of a season in there without the band or students; for that lack of effort, what do you expect? No one good will play them here - which means there are no marquee games to get the notice of the community and alums, the ones who only showed up when they were top 25, made no noise, because it was the cool place to be. I'm old enough to have been there for the Sea of Blue games, I've been there for UConn and Pitt and BC getting a tough game at Alumni (unfortunately I missed the UNC game, I was away at school), so I know full well what the potential is and the crowd hasn't come close to that in a long time. I’m going to agree with some/most of this and disagree with a little bit. I think the article’s point about scoring was that it was down each year from Oats final year. So while yes we were 50th in scoring, the point was that the scoring was 7 points down from the 84 a game under Oats. And this years scoring was down 2 from last year. Bad trend. Coupled with excessive turnovers and a defense that allowed a lot of ppg…we got what we got. As for recruiting, I agree. The point of the article was and you hit it , where was recruiting going. The staff had no plan. No building plan. Do we target high schools kids? Transfers? They had no philosophy. And in the end it’s why we had a mix match of players who truly had no real chemistry on the court. As for culture, whether it’s fair or not, the staff is always accountable for the actions of their players. Unfair but true. The Mballa situation was very bad. Was proof that Whitesell had no control. He brought in the coach. That absolutely falls on Whitesell. And luckily that wasn’t worse for us as a program than it was. Culture wise, Whitesell seemed like he let the players do what they wanted. To me from afar, it was evident with the play on the court. Whitesell was their good cop and had no bad cop on the staff. Whereas under Oats, he could be the good cop to Oats bad cop. So while yes the team played hard they were wildly undisciplined. Finally, as for big games, I think any big 4 game is a big game. And while yes I agree we don’t get high major teams here, we get decent action at alumni. For example, there’s no excuse why the game against Colgate only drew less than 2k. Why? I think the MAC has tried to step up with having games on a Friday night. All games are televised and some end up on ESPNU or CBSSN. We are a mid major that can’t get majors to come here, suck it up that’s life. We need to offset that by scheduling home and homes, 2 for 1s or just looking for up and coming mid majors and battling them. Like we did with Colgate. Also we should take a trip to the nyc area. We never do that. Get creative! There are ways around it. Enough with high school teams. Hell be a buy game. It pays the bills and could be a way to build money to eventually buy a home game. Edited March 15, 2023 by DooleyBull06 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
121Merrimac Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I think good cop, bad cop makes a huge impact in coaching hierarchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I almost believe whitesell took what/how oats always said his philosophy was too literal and didn't give oats enough credit Oats said recruit the best athletes and just let them do what they are the best at and everything else will fall in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullsbball Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 4 hours ago, Tee4three said: Saw it when rondo segu and jeenathan Williams were freshman - on that ranked team neither one really belonged on the floor but they still got a few minutes every game During Segu and Williams Freshman year (2018-2019), UB's scoring margin was +13.6 on average over their opponent. This year, UB's scoring margin was -0.2. Easy to play freshman when you're up by that many points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique14150 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 6 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said: Also we should take a trip to the nyc area. Totally agree. We should be playing a game in NYC area every year, to connect with so many alums down there. We should also be playing a football or basketball game in Florida every year. To connect with not just UB alums but all the Buffalo expats. I fully understand why big teams won't come here. It's all risk, little reward for them. Heck, Boeheim didn't even want to play UB at the Carrier Dome anymore for that matter. My point was simply, it's no surprise that it's hard to move the needle in the local sports market when you don't have any marquee games like that to get attention. When there are top professional league games going on by comparison. You're basically selling minor league sports in competition for time, money, and attention with major league sports. And I'm with you 100% that the games against the old Little Three teams are always big. I want UB to absolutely obliterate them every time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clodney Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 17 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said: For example, there’s no excuse why the game against Colgate only drew less than 2k. Why? I think the MAC has tried to step up with having games on a Friday night. All games are televised and some end up on ESPNU or CBSSN. Point made but Colgate averages fewer than a thousand people to their own home games. They aren't a great example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullsbball Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, trueblue32 said: What does "has heard from" mean? How is the Buffalo weather? You still available? You willing to go to our school? Send me your recruiting video? You want to have an interview with us? I'm sure these types of posts are designed to stir up other schools to be more prompt in contacting them? I have a hard time understanding why so many schools would be contacting Mading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, bullsbball said: What does "has heard from" mean? How is the Buffalo weather? You still available? You willing to go to our school? Send me your recruiting video? You want to have an interview with us? I'm sure these types of posts are designed to stir up other schools to be more prompt in contacting them? I have a hard time understanding why so many schools would be contacting Mading. It's definitely intentionally left vague. On these lists I almost always assume the best schools on the list are not actually offering. Recruiting in general is casting a wide net to say you were one of the first school's recruiting them when it comes time to make an offer. I'm sure with the transfer portal it's a lot of questions about why they're transferring and what they're looking for at their next school. I still have hope for Mading, granted probably at a lower level. He was the 240th ranked recruit nationally in his class, low to mid-majors don't usually have a shot at recruits of that pedigree even if it's on their second go around. I'm sure he will end up D1 if for no reason other than his recruiting pedigree. He's got potential and he can probably see the court more to develop that potential elsewhere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeseph Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Pretty much completes the roster emptying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 With all of the guys UB is losing, my guess is that the AD will circle back on Sunday to someone he KNOWS can keep a roster intact. Jim Whitesell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 They were one year too late in letting Whitesell go. We should be one year further in the development of our team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Being in the portal and being gone are not the same. If they new guy wants them back, he will try to recruit them back. If not, we start at square one. Everyone wanted JW gone, so this is how it goes, you restart. There is a ton of pressure on the players so there is no harm in entering the portal until you see where it plays out. It would be worse for them to not enter the portal and then a new coach comes in that doesn't want them or they don't fit his scheme. I fully expect Jack to enter as well since he may want a West Coast team if he's not a fit for the new coach. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasketBull Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 By all means ask whomever is on the roster what they want out of the next head coach, but there is absolutely nobody on the roster that isn't worth risking leaving for the correct hire. Keeping the band together is what got us Whitesell. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, BasketBull said: By all means ask whomever is on the roster what they want out of the next head coach, but there is absolutely nobody on the roster that isn't worth risking leaving for the correct hire. Keeping the band together is what got us Whitesell. Agreed, I like Jack and Curtis Jones the most, but Jones feels like he's a better #2 piece than "the man". Not a knock on him at all, but I think he is a better complimentary player. I think Jack can be a dominate big man in the league if he continues to develop, but big men can only take you so far, they need playmakers around them. Beyond that, I am not sold on any of them. I am intrigued to see what Chapman can do, but really have no idea what he may bring to the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) I saw this on Twitter. I wonder who is "showing interest" in them. Is ADMA calling recruits now? Edited March 21, 2023 by Jeseph Fixed tweet embed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueblue32 Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 Xander Rice was definitely from before Whitesell got fired and he has since committed to Monmouth. I’m guessing Snoddy was also pre-firing although that’s less clear because the first mention I saw was after the firing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, trueblue32 said: Xander Rice was definitely from before Whitesell got fired and he has since committed to Monmouth. I’m guessing Snoddy was also pre-firing although that’s less clear because the first mention I saw was after the firing Losing players to Monmouth, not sure that's a huge loss. No disrespect to Mr. Rice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuchMany Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, UBinMD said: Losing players to Monmouth, not sure that's a huge loss. No disrespect to Mr. Rice. If these are the caliber of player the former staff was chasing for next season... woof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everlast2504 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 3 hours ago, MuchMany said: If these are the caliber of player the former staff was chasing for next season... woof. Don't knock. They count Michael "The Situation" Sorrentino as one of there most famous alumni! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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