UB MBB Thoughts at 1 - 9

[UB92]

Rather than tack this on to the WKY thread, I thought I'd create a new one as we don't have a game for a while.

I am trying to get my head around the knowns as 400 minutes of basketball is enough to draw some conclusions.  Whether they stick is another story.  Here is a laundry list of thoughts..

1.   GH3 started at Villanova in 2008, but didn't get into a coaching position (at least according to Wikipedia) till 2017.
2.   When Jay Wright left, GH3 didn't get the head coach job, but stayed on for another year till he left to join UB.  As far as I can tell, GH3 has no head coaching experience at any level.

3.   GH3 had to replace a lot of players through graduation/transfer portal.  Others have documented in other threads that, while he ultimately brought players in, UB didn't win many (any?) battles for players it seems.

4.   It was a known before the season and is obvious now that we lack a true ball handler.  This is certainly a failure on GH3 and his staff, as this might have really helped.

5.   The general skill level to hit open shots for these players that we play with...is just not good.  We have ten games of evidence.

6.   It can't be that almost every team we play are fast starters.  I think our opponents come out in a typical way, but almost always get out to a double digit lead early.  Then, realizing that they can coast a bit, they do.   And the game flow has ALOT of evidence of this sort of game flow in these first ten games.   And while it is easy to say "well...if we just clean up those times where we don't score, we are competitive", that is the ultimate in seeing thing thing rose (or, in this case, blue) colored glasses.  

So...to recap...we don't have a lot of experience or required skill level on the court, no go-to ball handler and a coach with no HC experience.   It certainly doesn't pain a pretty or optimistic picture for the future.  Personally, I liked the hire for a variety of reasons.  But nothing that has happened since the hire has filled me with confidence about the future.    I would say the the over/under total on wins (including our 1 already) is probably 3.5.  I'd be a little surprised (but very pleasantly surprised) if we get to 5 wins, to be honest.     I know that people are saying things like "give it time" or "give it a few years" or "he is young" or "we see some growth"...and all of that is true...but these first 10 games happened and this isn't a one-game assessment.

Of course, I bleed blue and root for UB every game in every sport. 

So, as usual, Go Bulls.

PS:  I have a feeling that Butler is going to struggle in the Big East this year...the OT win at home vs. Cal notwithstanding...

 

 

 

 

 

[121Merrimac]

During the summer, ‘wait and see’ was too pessimistic.  Now, ‘wait and see’ is too optimistic.  This forum is toxic. 

[UB92]

6 minutes ago, 121Merrimac said:

During the summer, ‘wait and see’ was too pessimistic.  Now, ‘wait and see’ is too optimistic.  This forum is toxic. 

This isn't the summer.  I think we all had our expectations of what the first 10 games would look like.  I would wager not a single person (even the most pessimistic) would have identified that one win was in the range of reasonable expectations.  And it isn't like we are losing games in O/T.  We are/were NET 360 for a reason.

Also, "wait and see" and "too optimistic" isn't the comparison to make.   We all have to "wait and see" since nothing is going to happen.  I think what has to happen is we have to recalibrate what is reasonable/reality for the near future.    Which I why I think even five wins, at this point, would surprise me (but in a good way).  I have watched a lot of UB basketball these nearly 35 years.  I would be hard pressed to think of a less competitive team, game in and game out.  I mean, maybe some of those Cohane teams, but at least those young players would typically stay for a few years and develop a bit.  Now...anyone who develops and is reasonable...leaves through the portal.  So it makes it even harder.  You have to be able to build a team through the portal now and have them gel quickly...and function like a team.  As has been stated by a few on this board, the team gives vibes (at times) of looking like an intramural team that just shows up and plays together, not a team that has practices, develop plays, etc. and executes in game.   Combine that with the poor shooting and you get 1 - 9.

I wholeheartedly disagree that this forum is "toxic", by the way.  Just long standing fans, supporters, boosters, alumni, etc., communicating their thoughts and opinions about the game, team, etc.   What would be much, much worse is that if the game thread wasn't started or that no one bothered to talk about it.

 

 

[Chet]

Truth be told, this board is rough, but what do you expect??? In a span of a few years the team has gone from our best years to our worst. I'm incredibly frustrated by it. 

[UBinMD]

18 minutes ago, Chet said:

Truth be told, this board is rough, but what do you expect??? In a span of a few years the team has gone from our best years to our worst. I'm incredibly frustrated by it. 

I would say 98% of the posters want a successful team that we can all be proud of. Now that we have tasted what could be here in Buffalo for football and basketball, it is extremely frustrating that we have basically endured a full reset.  I would like to think we will get there again, but with today's portal, NIL, etc. it does feel like we are falling behind.

[rma]

2 hours ago, UB92 said:

1.   GH3 started at Villanova in 2008, but didn't get into a coaching position (at least according to Wikipedia) till 2017.
2.   When Jay Wright left, GH3 didn't get the head coach job, but stayed on for another year till he left to join UB.  As far as I can tell, GH3 has no head coaching experience at any level.

How does this compare to the resume of Bobby Hurley or Nate Oats before they were hired here?

 

1 hour ago, UB92 said:

I wholeheartedly disagree that this forum is "toxic", by the way.  Just long standing fans, supporters, boosters, alumni, etc., communicating their thoughts and opinions about the game, team, etc.   What would be much, much worse is that if the game thread wasn't started or that no one bothered to talk about it.

Completely agree.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by rma

[DaBulls99]

Honestly what worries me the most is we technically only lose 1 guy going into next year and he’s seemingly our best guy. Not going to replace him with better. 

[UBlearns]

15 minutes ago, rma said:

How does this compare to the resume of Bobby Hurley or Nate Oats before they were hired here?

Oats was a HS head coach for 12 years, and took his team to the state semis 4 of those 12 years.

Hurley had no head coaching experience but had a tremendous basketball pedigree (2-time national champion, famous household name in college basketball circles, top-10 NBA draft pick, son of a legendary basketball coach / brother of a successful basketball coach) that few can match.

Halcovage is learning on-the-job, compared to the other two, and it shows.

(for the record I'm not sure if this is me agreeing or disagreeing with your overall point, just answering the question)

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[rma]

37 minutes ago, UBlearns said:

Oats was a HS head coach for 12 years, and took his team to the state semis 4 of those 12 years.

Hurley had no head coaching experience but had a tremendous basketball pedigree (2-time national champion, famous household name in college basketball circles, top-10 NBA draft pick, son of a legendary basketball coach / brother of a successful basketball coach) that few can match.

Halcovage is learning on-the-job, compared to the other two, and it shows.

(for the record I'm not sure if this is me agreeing or disagreeing with your overall point, just answering the question)

All three were "up and coming" with either no head coaching experience or no D1 experience.

GH3 was on a national championship team his first year as an assistant and spent 15 years on the staff of a Hall of Fame coach. His resume as a coach was no better or worse than Oats, Hurley, or even Witherspoon at the time of hire.

Edited December 10, 2023 by rma

[Fedup]

Face it. UB athletic program is broken and unfixable. What should be done?: 1. Fire Allnuts. 2. Go down to Div III in bball. Great rivalry will ensue with Buff St. and Fredonia. 3. Discontinue football. No more Mo will be awesome. As a taxpayer, I resent my tax dollars being wasted on this joke.

[squire17]

Is it too early? Maybe wait until February…Hey Hey Ho Ho GH3 has got to go. Unbelievable.

[rma]

1 minute ago, Fedup said:

Face it. UB athletic program is broken and unfixable. What should be done?: 1. Fire Allnuts. 2. Go down to Div III in bball. Great rivalry will ensue with Buff St. and Fredonia. 3. Discontinue football. No more Mo will be awesome. As a taxpayer, I resent my tax dollars being wasted on this joke.

Go away troll.

[Fedup]

UB NET ranking 353 out of 362 teams. Ha. Ha.

[UBlearns]

41 minutes ago, rma said:

All three were "up and coming" with either no head coaching experience or no D1 experience.

GH3 was on a national championship team his first year as an assistant and spent 15 years on the staff of a Hall of Fame coach. His resume as a coach was no better or worse than Oats, Hurley, or even Witherspoon at the time of hire.

Honestly, you could argue that GH3 had the strongest resume of the three.  Like you said, he coached at a high major level and had major success.  He has a HOF head coach in his corner and some very powerful names in the sport (Jalen Brunson comes to mind) who speak extremely highly of him.  Hurley didn't have that, and from what I recall Oats had very little hype whatsoever aside from the players in the locker room (and we saw how that turned out - he's the greatest coach in program history).

I'm hoping for the best for GH3.  Trying not to be critical of a coach 10 games into his tenure.  He gets time to install his system, put his stamp on the program, and that takes a few seasons.  But the early returns are......below my expectations, to put it bluntly.

[RapidsFan]

.

Edited February 18 by RapidsFan

[promotherobot]

2 hours ago, Fedup said:

UB NET ranking 353 out of 362 teams. Ha. Ha.

We moved up??

[Ubbulls84]

I think the thing that is most apparent from the first ten games is we just don’t have the talent right now to compete at not only MAC but D1 in general. I’d say only Chatman and Isaiah Adams are legit D1 starting players. Although I do like some of the recruits such as Boldin and Sabol, they are freshman and need much more development before being legitimate starting or rotation players. Fulcher has potential but can’t shoot the ball which is a huge problem at his position. I don’t think things will change so fast until Halcovage is able to go into the transfer portal and bring in some real experienced talent. 

[Tee4three]

17 hours ago, DaBulls99 said:

Honestly what worries me the most is we technically only lose 1 guy going into next year and he’s seemingly our best guy. Not going to replace him with better. 

We get the mystery that is James Graham next season

But for real he would have been a nice add this season 

[Tee4three]

The biggest issue is the lack of ability/talent/skill to score 

Yesterday's game really highlighted the current issues, before we knew it the bulls were down 20pts. It wasn't because Western Kentucky was doing anything special it was because UB couldn't hit open shots

I think the in game/practice/prep coaching is there I see the ball movement on offense and much better spacing than the first few games, on defense I see the communication the effort and defense switching from man to zone and generally seems to work. This is all coaching 

It really comes down to talent and were that falls on GH3 shoulders I wouldn't know because it's all recruiting and retention and a lot of other things very well could have played a part in this 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Tee4three

[Sportsfan]

4 hours ago, Tee4three said:

The biggest issue is the lack of ability/talent/skill to score 

Yesterday's game really highlighted the current issues, before we knew it the bulls were down 20pts. It wasn't because Western Kentucky was doing anything special it was because UB couldn't hit open shots

I think the in game/practice/prep coaching is there I see the ball movement on offense and much better spacing than the first few games, on defense I see the communication the effort and defense switching from man to zone and generally seems to work. This is all coaching 

It really comes down to talent and were that falls on GH3 shoulders I wouldn't know because it's all recruiting and retention and a lot of other things very well could have played a part in this 

Starting 3 freshman at guard is not a receipt for any success.  Add in your top scorer from last year is hurt, so basically there are 4 new starters, with 3 being freshment.  Also, 2 of the first 3 off the bench are freshman.  Add in a new coaching staff.  

Year 2 will be very telling (as year 3 was with Mo).  Mo has the program trending downward, Becky B. upward.

[DocCas86]

What I feel we do know 10 games in is that this team was not built to compete this year.  I won't repeat some of the issues that have been cited.  However, the main contributing factor is the amount of minutes coming from freshman (plus Fulcher moving from JUCO to D1).  I had mentioned before that the stats of Fulcher, Boldin and Sabol (current group) were comparable to Caruthers (SO after 1 year JUCO), Graves (FR) and Segu (FR) (prior group).  I believe if you substituted Caruthers, Graves and Segu from their first year into current team and asked them to contribute as many minutes, the result would likely not be significantly different.  My point is to emphasize the lack of experience may be the primary reason for the poor results, not the lack of talent.  Time will tell if any of these players progress in the way Caruthers, Graves and Segu did.

I think it is worth noting that the current team members results are statistically a bit lower than the prior group, but this is based on playing more minutes - with more coming against the starters of other teams.  I would submit that the numbers would not be that different if the group of Caruthers, Graves and Segu played more minutes against starters.

So why is there a glimmer of hope - Fulcher, Boldin and Sabol will improve.  If they remain with the team and Halcovage does better with bringing players on board you could be looking at much improved results in year two.  

 

[zigo230]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:26 PM, Fedup said:

UB NET ranking 353 out of 362 teams. Ha. Ha.

 

That's a complete embarrassment.  Wow, UB men's sports has fallen.  I'll give this coach another recruiting season of course to show what he's got...but i guess there's nowhere to go but up.

[dutchcountry7]

Year one of a rebuild...  Let's see how this team looks in February.  Lets see what players coming in over the summer.

The sky isn't always falling.

[trueblue32]

2 hours ago, dutchcountry7 said:

Year one of a rebuild...  Let's see how this team looks in February.  Lets see what players coming in over the summer.

The sky isn't always falling.

People keep saying this, but this isn't pro sports where we need to tank for a high draft pick. There is literally no reason that this team should be the worst in UB history by a wide margin. Is the idea that the recruiting gets easier after the mystery of what could be is gone and Halcovage is just a coach leading a team coming off of (what we can hope is) a 5 win season? Spoiler alert: even without a coaching change there is no guarantee that any of these players are here next year. We are not rebuilding anything currently. Next year Halcovage will be rebuilding from the depths that he has plummeted the program to. If he thinks rebuilding is recruiting off a 15 win season then he is about to find out what rebuilding is.

Edited December 13, 2023 by trueblue32