Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways

[bullsbball]

In the past, the "additional seat fees" were required and then you would get the parking pass. Not sure if they are still required if you don't want the parking pass. If they changed the rules so that you only need to pay for the seats, then the price of the season tickets actually has gone down.

I pass the additional fee and get the parking pass even though I don't really need it. Figure it's my only monetary contribution to UB.

Edited January 16, 2023 by bullsbball

[clodney]

My opinion is that these inexplicable losses are no longer outliers in the data. They are a trend. We now have no signature wins and 3 really bad losses to sub-280 teams. We are at our lowest ranking in 2 decades only 4 years removed from the greatest team in UB history. Whitesell was handed a hot rod and he drove it off a damn cliff. In all true honesty, I'm more upset with Alnutt for making such a boneheaded decision and I'd actually prefer to see him fired over anyone.

We all knew '22-23 would be a struggle with so many new faces but just a couple weeks ago many of us felt confident that our boys could compete with the top dogs in the conference. Now, I'm not even sure we're in the top half at all. We still haven't played a top MAC team outside of a struggling Ohio squad who we barely beat at home. I'm sure there will be chaos in the weeks ahead but I just can't picture us topping Kent State or Akron when we can't compete with CMU and Miami on the road. Those are the games you need to win.

If we don't seriously turn it around I'm not sure what salvages Whitesell's job beyond a complete commitment from 100% of the roster to stay and build for next year. If any of them leave they should probably take JW with them. We cannot afford another rebuilding year. Our entire brand is on life support.

[John]

28 minutes ago, clodney said:

My opinion is that these inexplicable losses are no longer outliers in the data. They are a trend. We now have no signature wins and 3 really bad losses to sub-280 teams. We are at our lowest ranking in 2 decades only 4 years removed from the greatest team in UB history. Whitesell was handed a hot rod and he drove it off a damn cliff. In all true honesty, I'm more upset with Alnutt for making such a boneheaded decision and I'd actually prefer to see him fired over anyone.

We all knew '22-23 would be a struggle with so many new faces but just a couple weeks ago many of us felt confident that our boys could compete with the top dogs in the conference. Now, I'm not even sure we're in the top half at all. We still haven't played a top MAC team outside of a struggling Ohio squad who we barely beat at home. I'm sure there will be chaos in the weeks ahead but I just can't picture us topping Kent State or Akron when we can't compete with CMU and Miami on the road. Those are the games you need to win.

If we don't seriously turn it around I'm not sure what salvages Whitesell's job beyond a complete commitment from 100% of the roster to stay and build for next year. If any of them leave they should probably take JW with them. We cannot afford another rebuilding year. Our entire brand is on life support.

Do agree, Something has to change in both the players and coaches mindset and attitude to turn this around. Powell and Adams seem to want to play one on one ball with no team attitude and along with others on the team become very frustrated, Their track record of terrible three point shooting, terrible free throw shooting and 15-20 turnovers per game spell disaster in many games. Will a light bulb go off for this team to change course I guess we will see. I can see several players wanting to leave especially some of our younger players who are getting minimal playing time like Caesar, 

[John]

1 minute ago, John said:

Do agree, Something has to change in both the players and coaches mindset and attitude to turn this around. Powell and Adams seem to want to play one on one ball with no team attitude and along with others on the team become very frustrated, Their track record of terrible three point shooting, terrible free throw shooting and 15-20 turnovers per game spell disaster in many games. Will a light bulb go off for this team to change course I guess we will see. I can see several players wanting to leave especially some of our younger players who are getting minimal playing time like Caesar, Maudig and Williamson just to name a few. Will see on Tuesday.

 

[Big 4 Hoops Blogger]

I addressed my thoughts regarding Jim Whitesell and his future at UB in our latest episode of 'Talkin Big Four Hoops'

Please fast-forward to the 17:21 mark.

 

[Chet]

2 hours ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

I addressed my thoughts regarding Jim Whitesell and his future at UB in our latest episode of 'Talkin Big Four Hoops'

Please fast-forward to the 17:21 mark.

 

Sad but true on your analysis of the Bulls. It's been a long almost four years with Whitsell leading the team. Disappointment on top of disappointment. 

[Chet]

10 hours ago, clodney said:

My opinion is that these inexplicable losses are no longer outliers in the data. They are a trend. We now have no signature wins and 3 really bad losses to sub-280 teams. We are at our lowest ranking in 2 decades only 4 years removed from the greatest team in UB history. Whitesell was handed a hot rod and he drove it off a damn cliff. In all true honesty, I'm more upset with Alnutt for making such a boneheaded decision and I'd actually prefer to see him fired over anyone.

We all knew '22-23 would be a struggle with so many new faces but just a couple weeks ago many of us felt confident that our boys could compete with the top dogs in the conference. Now, I'm not even sure we're in the top half at all. We still haven't played a top MAC team outside of a struggling Ohio squad who we barely beat at home. I'm sure there will be chaos in the weeks ahead but I just can't picture us topping Kent State or Akron when we can't compete with CMU and Miami on the road. Those are the games you need to win.

If we don't seriously turn it around I'm not sure what salvages Whitesell's job beyond a complete commitment from 100% of the roster to stay and build for next year. If any of them leave they should probably take JW with them. We cannot afford another rebuilding year. Our entire brand is on life support.

Unfortunately, u r spot on. 

[BullBoy]

I have been a strong proponent of Coach Whitesell and I think he is a great man that any school would be proud to say is their head coach, but you are al correct in that the results just aren't there. 

I think we would all be kidding ourselves if a change was made in season, I just don't see that happening.

But I do think a change is coming at the end of the season...And I will stay adamant in my opinion that Coach Hodgson is not the answer!!

[Big 4 Hoops Blogger]

3 hours ago, BullBoy said:

I have been a strong proponent of Coach Whitesell and I think he is a great man that any school would be proud to say is their head coach, but you are al correct in that the results just aren't there. 

I think we would all be kidding ourselves if a change was made in season, I just don't see that happening.

But I do think a change is coming at the end of the season...And I will stay adamant in my opinion that Coach Hodgson is not the answer!!

That’s part of what makes this difficult. I do believe Jim Whitesell is a great person and I’ve been hoping he could turn things around.

I’m not sure what direction UB will go. I could even see the program holding onto him for another year or two.

I’m a fan of Bryan Hodgson but I don’t believe he’ll ever be the head coach at UB. That said, I do hope Buffalo targets a young coach with strong recruiting ties when they eventually do make a change down the line.

[UBinMD]

35 minutes ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

That’s part of what makes this difficult. I do believe Jim Whitesell is a great person and I’ve been hoping he could turn things around.

I’m not sure what direction UB will go. I could even see the program holding onto him for another year or two.

I’m a fan of Bryan Hodgson but I don’t believe he’ll ever be the head coach at UB. That said, I do hope Buffalo targets a young coach with strong recruiting ties when they eventually do make a change down the line.

I'm not sure the infatuation with Hodgson, I could be completely wrong and he may be a great head coach, but I also feel like being a great recruiter doesn't necessarily mean you will be a great HC, there are different skills sets. This is not unlike an OC or DC in the NFL becoming a HC and flopping. He has been an assistant for 11 years. Has he had options as a HC at lower level or low end D1 program and he has turned it down or has he not really been approached as a HC. He wasn't even selected as the HC for Blue Collar U (no idea how that was decided and may not apply). Becky Burke is a bit of a different animal. She has proven herself as a HC at multiple locations (granted lower level) but has built from literally nothing, became Coach of the Year in her conference, etc. and seems to be able to recruit (I also think her assistants are good recruiters as well from the Twitter feeds I have seen on current and future players). She also has street cred for being a top level D1 player that I'm sure helps.

If the Hodgson reasoning is that we are going to catch lightning in a bottle twice (ala Oats) I guess I understand that, but that also feels like you want to resuscitate the past, which is usually a bad option for moving to the future. If we do end up replacing JW, I would prefer an up and comer with HC experience and there have to be some men's BB versions of Burke out there. Much like you, I like JW as a human and give him more leeway due to that I'm sure and really want him to succeed, but if we do move on, I will completely understand and will get behind the next person 100%.

[121Merrimac]

I liked Nate’s mathematics background.  (Take short 3s, not long 2s)

And, I liked Felisha’s psychology background.   (You can do it, attitude)

Mimic one of these, please. 

[DaBulls99]

2 hours ago, Erie County said:

Hodgson was always the answer. Imagine doubting someone who had the ability to score one of the top recruit in the country. 

Young up and comers, not someone who got the job selling Segu staying. 

Mark Alnutt botched this. He has to correct it this April.

A good recruiter does not a good coach make. 

[Big 4 Hoops Blogger]

6 hours ago, UBinMD said:

I'm not sure the infatuation with Hodgson, I could be completely wrong and he may be a great head coach, but I also feel like being a great recruiter doesn't necessarily mean you will be a great HC, there are different skills sets. This is not unlike an OC or DC in the NFL becoming a HC and flopping. He has been an assistant for 11 years. Has he had options as a HC at lower level or low end D1 program and he has turned it down or has he not really been approached as a HC. He wasn't even selected as the HC for Blue Collar U (no idea how that was decided and may not apply). Becky Burke is a bit of a different animal. She has proven herself as a HC at multiple locations (granted lower level) but has built from literally nothing, became Coach of the Year in her conference, etc. and seems to be able to recruit (I also think her assistants are good recruiters as well from the Twitter feeds I have seen on current and future players). She also has street cred for being a top level D1 player that I'm sure helps.

If the Hodgson reasoning is that we are going to catch lightning in a bottle twice (ala Oats) I guess I understand that, but that also feels like you want to resuscitate the past, which is usually a bad option for moving to the future. If we do end up replacing JW, I would prefer an up and comer with HC experience and there have to be some men's BB versions of Burke out there. Much like you, I like JW as a human and give him more leeway due to that I'm sure and really want him to succeed, but if we do move on, I will completely understand and will get behind the next person 100%.

I'm not sure if Hodgson would make a good head coach or not because we've never seen him running his own team. He does offer an elite skillset as a recruiter. When it comes to mid-major coaches, you're looking for someone that offers high end potential. There's no doubt he brings that to the table.

That said, I don't think UB will ever approach him in the future.

As far as Blue Collar U, he was supposed to be their head coach when they first organized the team and stepped down when it became obvious it would be a schedule conflict. The players would confirm that. I was at their first practice when they started their TBT team.

As to why he hasn't taken lower level head coaching jobs... Why would he when he has a comfortable living as a high paid assistant at one of the best programs in the country? He can enjoy that lifestyle as long as he wants with Nate Oats or until an opportunity presents itself. Of course, if he really wants to be a head coach, he can take a lower level job but I don't see that happening.

All of this just to say, things have worked out well for him. I'm sure Hodgson has no regrets about how it all played out. Everyone wishes things would've worked out better for Whitesell. There's still time this year to turn things around but if they don't, I hope UB does a national search and brings in young blood that can bring some energy into the program once again.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Big 4 Hoops Blogger

[yussi1870]

On 1/16/2023 at 11:24 AM, clodney said:

 

If we don't seriously turn it around I'm not sure what salvages Whitesell's job beyond a complete commitment from 100% of the roster to stay and build for next year. If any of them leave they should probably take JW with them. We cannot afford another rebuilding year. Our entire brand is on life support.

If we take another coach the. We are guaranteed a rebuilding year

[DaBulls99]

I’m glad I’m not in a foxhole with some of y’all. “Life support”. Get the hell outta here. We just had arguably the best Fall in UB Athletics history. We are 3-2 and 3-1 in hoops. Get real. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by DaBulls99

[Big 4 Hoops Blogger]

7 minutes ago, DaBulls99 said:

I’m glad I’m not in a foxhole with some of y’all. “Life support”. Get the hell outta here. We just had arguably the best Fall in UB Athletics history. We are 3-2 and 3-1 in hoops. Get in real. 

Is this sarcasm? 2018 UB football went 10-4, UB mens basketball went 32-4. UB women's basketball went 23-9 and made it to the second round. This isn't even close to the best fall in UB athletics history.

I'm actually really excited for the football program moving forward but lets not talk up MBB and WBB when they're clearly going through rebuilding seasons.

It's okay to be critical without being on life support. The criticisms of the men's program are completely valid. I still think the program has a bunch of potential. That's why I want them to make a change in the first place. It's the same reason I was fine with them firing Reggie Witherspoon back in the day. It's not that I don't love the program, I'm hoping for them to better themselves.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Big 4 Hoops Blogger

[DaBulls99]

Fall - Football, W Soccer and W Volleyball.
Criticism for direction under Whitesell is fine and valid. Saying the entire athletic brand is on life support is comical and not correct. 

[Sportsfan]

16 hours ago, Big 4 Hoops Blogger said:

That’s part of what makes this difficult. I do believe Jim Whitesell is a great person and I’ve been hoping he could turn things around.

I’m not sure what direction UB will go. I could even see the program holding onto him for another year or two.

I’m a fan of Bryan Hodgson but I don’t believe he’ll ever be the head coach at UB. That said, I do hope Buffalo targets a young coach with strong recruiting ties when they eventually do make a change down the line.

Sports is a business and the 3 key outcomes required from a Head Coach = Recruiting, Get the players to play hard (as a team) and Program Energy (fans).  The X's and O's can be left to the assistance coaches.  

Unfortunately Jim is average at best at all 3.  This will translate (in a conference UB should be 1, 2 or 3 every year) into average results across the board.  Alnutt and donors must see this, just look at the Bowling Green attendance. 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Sportsfan

[clodney]

2 hours ago, DaBulls99 said:

Fall - Football, W Soccer and W Volleyball.
Criticism for direction under Whitesell is fine and valid. Saying the entire athletic brand is on life support is comical and not correct. 

I would argue the greatest brand recognition in the history of our school came just a few years ago when our basketball team was top 25 and one of the trendiest dark horses for millions of brackets across the country. Hats off to our ladies for crushing it but all of Title IX championships in the world won’t get that level of publicity back. We’re turning into just another Florida Gulf Coast.  

[enrique14150]

Attendance lately - has athletics made much of an effort to market these games?  Is it the coach's job to coach, or is he also responsible for whether the fans feel like coming or not?  There is ZERO collegiate atmosphere there right now besides the cheerleaders. No band, no students, at least the basketball is fun to watch.  I would rather he concentrate on coaching up the players and delegate the marketing to others.  I agree, winning sells.  So the fanbase is so spoiled now that they won't show up for anything short of a top 25 team?  I think what happened here - the team got good, the coach moved on to a bigger opportunity - was totally what was expected to happen at this level.  It happens everywhere, every year.

I've been incredibly disappointed by the attendance this season.  I'll give people a pass to some degree for the games against D3 opponents.  But they're missing a team that's a lot easier to watch than last year's, with Mballa's "I don't care" body language, and seniors with clear limitations who weren't going to get better (and who shot the ball horribly).  Is the public's attention so tied into the Bills and Sabres right now that even for alums, the Bulls don't register?

I'm curious, how many people who have already made up their mind against Whitesell (in many cases, before he coached a game as head coach) are willing to change their mind?  I'm not saying it's time yet, but if it was at some point.  How many would rather stick with their opinion than think they were wrong?  I know this, because I thought this way about many Bills coaches over the years. There are a lot of people who are mighty quiet when the Bulls have a good game, or even a good stretch in a game, but sure enough they're ready and waiting to chime in after a bad game or bad run within a game.  Waiting in the wings.  A win doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme, but a loss (or a 10 point swing) is proof of a strategic failure by the school.  (I talked to someone yesterday who said something like this). They've made up their mind, so no amount of good news counts, but anything bad is definite proof.  Again, I know this mindset because I've been that person.  Oh I believe you do care, if you're upset about the state of things.  You're angry because you care.  Are there fans who are actually afraid that the team might do well, in which case the coach they don't like would stay (or they'd have to change their tune?)

[DocCas86]

The two road losses were tough.  However, the Bulls have played well at home so far in MAC conference play.  So I thought I would look at some BT stats (home vs away), and offer some thoughts:

Offensively there are four stats that are indicative of the drop off in performance on the road, that are more within the teams control (as opposed to 3P% which I would expect to see drop)  Improvement in these areas could lead to better results on the road.

1. TO% - at home we have been middle of the MAC - but the team's performance on the road is near the bottom.  Limiting turnovers is critical.
2. FTR - The Bulls were forced to shoot a lot more free throws on the road.  UB needs to shoot better than 62% to counter strategy of defense by fouling.
3. 3PR - it is not surprising that 3P% drops on the road - it appears that the team tried to take fewer 3s on the road, but maybe a more drastic drop is warranted.
4. Tempo - need to slow down on the road.

Defensively - the main blemish is the 2P% - at home UB has done a much better job defending the 2P shot.  

 

[clodney]

37 minutes ago, enrique14150 said:

So the fanbase is so spoiled now that they won't show up for anything short of a top 25 team? 

Are there fans who are actually afraid that the team might do well, in which case the coach they don't like would stay (or they'd have to change their tune?)

A couple things from my perspective.

 - "Won't show up for anything short of a top 25 team?" - You are severely underestimating the drop off that has occurred. We weren't even in the top-200 before this game tipped off.

 - "Are there fans who are actually afraid that the team might do well, in which case the coach they don't like would stay (or they'd have to change their tune?)" - Great question. I think it comes down to what type of fan you are. Do you want to shoot for the stars and have tremendous highs and lows? Or do you want a more consistent, mediocre product? After years of Reggie and then the roller coaster of Bobby/Oats, I can safely say I fall into the former group, and to me Jim Whitesell is a return to the Reggie years. Even if he creates a mediocre product and wins a couple games, I have no confidence that he'll take us back to the top of the conference. I have no confidence he will create a team that WVU is actually afraid to play. Maybe the reason we played such a tough schedule this year was because for the first time in a few seasons those big programs weren't threatened by us! The point is, I would rather we swung and missed with a big name. And to me, if we're serious about this program then a coach who doesn't win the conference in 3 years should be seen the door. That's how big boy college sports work. 3 years to win or show everyone that you have a path to winning. If you don't do it in 3, NEXT BULL IN. I didn't like the Whitesell hire but I'm even more upset that we gave him 3 years, he failed, and we are letting him continue with the rebuild. It shows that we are not committed to this sport anymore. That's why our attendance is where it is IMO.

Edited January 18, 2023 by clodney

[DooleyBull06]

I’ll sum up all of this in one sentence. Whitesell has failed to win the big game.  That’s it. Especially in his first two season with better talent. Time should be running out on him if this continues. This next stretch of games will be an indication of whether he can win big games or not.

[BullBoy]

Here is my quick view on attendance....Buffalo doesn't have great sports fans... They have great Bills fans and other than that if a team is not winning at an extremely high clip, people don't show up...I think even the Sabres show that.

And yes, the long break without students and pep band is terrible.

[DooleyBull06]

51 minutes ago, BullBoy said:

And yes, the long break without students and pep band is terrible.

And when students do come back they need to show up. The old atmosphere of the student section, the band, cheerleaders and dazzlers…with both student and community engagement done by the SA and promos teams. That’s what’s needed. Not a DJ. Hate the damn DJ. And I love rap and current hit songs.