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Here we go with the doomsday posts 🙄 like clockwork, even in the good oats years lol Anyway I was hoping we'd make a statement last night but it went the opposite. Oh well. I still love this roster and they have had some good performances this season. Last night was not one. This is a young team. A lot of turnover in the starting lineup and coaching staff. It takes time. If you seriously think we are going to be a top 25 team every game for the rest of time you're just going to get pissed off. If you've been around here for more than a decade you appreciate how damn amazing the last half dozen years have been. And you understand that even this year's team is as good as most of the teams before the recent run. Zero worry here from me. Learn and grow during the out of conference schedule. Like someone else mentioned, go 9-4, that's amazing. Get ready for the MAC season. All that really matters. The OOC portion to me is to figure out where the jucos and role players fit in. We have a set 5 that I like. But the team absolutely needs guys like Johnson, grant etc to at least find a role. We've always seemingly had a Juco guy who had a good impact as a 2-3 out there over the years and so far it looks like we might not which would be a bit of a blow. We still need to figure that out.

Gabe Grant is brutal...come on kid .

A few observations... 1. I keep coming back to this, but last year was the best team UB has ever had. Heck...I would wager that it was the most complete team in the MAC in a long, long time. The comparison to last year is not fair to anyone. 2. One of the most obvious (to anyone that watched UB in person or on TV like I did many times) advantages that UB had last year in the MAC (and beyond) was the team depth. It made UB almost unstoppable in the MAC during the course of most games. The players they put in beyond their starters were just so much better than the backups for the other teams. The starters UB had vs. other teams were close, but our backups were just so much better. That depth is now gone as people have seen during the games this year. This will make it a much, much more competitive MAC season that it was last year (or the year before that). 3. I am going to post a poll on this, but I wonder how much better (or worse) UB would be right now if Oats was still here and we had his draft class. 4. Johnson's contribution (or lack thereof) is crucially important to the success of the team. I think there was an expectation (and rightly so) that he would be a "go to guy" owing to his experience. But as others have mentioned, it has not been pretty on either end of the court. He is 14 for 57 in his last five games. He may need to go to the bench and have Segu start. But that really hurts our "second team" so much. As others have noted (and I mention above), our depth is in "developing" mode. 5. Overall, I think the fans need to temper their expectations a bit more. UB is a top 125 team. I would wager we finish with more wins than losses this season, but there will be some ugly games (and that could continue on Sunday). Go Bulls.

First off those announcers were hard to listen to. Honestly, embarrassing. I am all for being a homer for your team, but that took it to the next level. I thought they were going to stop the game when the walk on hit the three and give him a medal or something! Can someone explain to me the logic of that stadium. Why would you put the benches on the end lines? I cannot get my mind around that concept at all, makes no sense in any way. It seems to make in game coaching much more difficult. I know many of us are frustrated with the results of this game. Trust me I am frustrated as well. But lets not lose sight of the fact this is a young team with a new coach playing their first true road contest of the season. There are going to be poor performances and frustration associated with this team until they get it all figured out. I suspect that will take more than half the season. This team will figure it out, we just need to be patient. We are frustrated because we all know this was a winnable game, lets be honest we play them 10 times I suspect we win 7 of them. The first 5 minutes of the game we played great. After that we were terrible on both ends. On offense we went several long stretches without a basket. We really needed our leader Graves tonight to carry us in these stretches. We had no consistent scoring option on offense tonight. With Graves off we struggled to find another scorer. The defensive effort was not where it has been the last few games. We gave away too many easy baskets. We shot 60% from free throw line, that simply cannot continue. We shot the ball poorly (39% fg) and committed 17 turnovers. Not a recipe that will win many games. Mballa-He has become such a consistent force on both ends. Solid defense and rebounding, consistent scoring. I only wish he could make a few free throws (1-4 tonight). Williams-I liked his shot selection tonight. He needs to develop an ability to go right off the dribble. He is not fooling anyone going to his left almost exclusively. Would still like to see more on the defensive glass from him. Graves-He did not look healthy to me tonight. Not sure if he is sick or has an injury. He continues to settle for too many threes, instead of using his strength attacking off the dribble. He also needs to improve his free throw shooting. Johnson-I cannot explain how frustrated I am with his play. I am not holding back anymore. He is terrible. He has terrible shot selection, again shoots 4 for 13 tonight. On the season he is shooting under 30%, that simply cannot happen. He does not pass the ball well and has too many turnovers. The sad part of his play is offensively is the better part of his game. Defensively he is a total liability on the floor. He cannot defend a wall. There were two plays tonight where he was the only player back on defense and he jumped out of the way of a player so they could dunk the ball. How about you try to take a charge! At this point he deserves no playing time at all. He is bringing this team down and coach needs to cut the anchor. I cannot put it any more simple then this, he does not have the basketball IQ, size or athleticism to contribute at this level. I don't care if the team promised him playing time when he transferred here. He cannot handle the step up in play and he does not deserve playing time. Gallion and Segu getting his minutes is what coach needs to do until he proves he deserves these minutes. Jordan-Off night shooting the ball, but he played solid defense and took the ball to the hole strong. Jordan and Mballa are our most consistent players, we know what we get from them each and every game Grant-Why is he the first guy off the bench? He is also a defensive liability. He cannot guard anyone, especially on the perimeter. He does not have the lateral quickness to defend at this level. He is a spot up shooter to be used in spot situations. Nothing more. He should lose his playing time to Hardnett and Nickleberry immediately. Hardnett-Still cannot seem to be able to figure out how to defend without fouling. He really needs to figure this out. This team needs his size and athleticism. I am pushing for this kid! Segu-Played tonight like a kid who has had his confidence rattled. He needs a good game to get him back on track. Even in his off days he limits turnovers and does not take ill advised shots and he always competes on the defensive end. Nickleberry-Has not shown much this season but at this point I am ready to give him additional minutes to see what he can do with extended time on the floor. Gallion-Deserves playing time immediately! Coach needs to play Segu and Gallion more for Johnson. I would put Johnson at the end of the bench and see if he can work his way back into the rotation. My guess is he does not have the mental fortitude to handle this benching and he will melt. He simply is taking this team down with his poor shots and absolutely embarrassing defense. Coach also needs to play Hardnett and Nickleberry more in place of Grant. With those changes I think we are significantly stronger team on the defensive end and on the glass. This will eliminate many of the easy baskets we are currently giving up. I have shown my frustration in this post. I remain positive that this season will be a success and I will be supporting this team as we build to Cleveland. I know this young team and first year coach will get this ship turned in the right direction and we will be playing our best when we need to. I cannot wait for Sunday, go Bulls!

I could not agree with this statement anymore. This season is different from last year. We will need to use the season to grow and improve. All that matters for this season is getting ready for a week of games in Cleveland. If we are playing our best basketball by then this will be a successful season. As fans we need to understand there will be bumps in the road and we there will be frustrating games like tonight. I for one chose to support this team and I will be here rooting them on all the way. Here to playing our best basketball in Cleveland and going to the big dance again!

I could not disagree with these two statements more. This is a young team with a new coach that needs time to play together to improve. Give them time, no need to jump off the cliff after one poor outing.

I agree.... this a bad game, not unexpected. It is tough to watch, but hopefully they learn from this. Agree that the goal for this team is to position themselves for postseason and win in Cleveland.

Is it too late for the zone? Sorry... my way to deal with disappointment is with humor... forgive me if I offend anyone.

They only work in the MAC if they are good players to begin with. I am starting to see that class was extremely over rated and i think we are fine without them. Give me Mballa over Hawkins any day of the week,

But they work pretty well in the MAC

I bet Hawkins transfer out of Bama. Pudgy big men do not work in the SEC.

While I agree with most of this I would say that we have an identity. Our identity is in your face defense, solid rebounding (when our guards rebound we win), get out in transition and get fast break points and we run a up tempo offense. I don’t think much has changed from Oats to Whitesell in that regard. I think our issue has been execution. And we have deficiencies. And yes you can pinpoint lack of on the floor leadership (Graves is a quiet leader not vocal) and therefore guys trying to do too much. Thus taking us out of the flow of our designed offense. Example is Johnson with his horrible shot selection. Grant when he enters the game first thing he wants to do is chuck up a 3. I don’t think identity is the issue. Guys buying into their roles going forward is what we need to work on. Being selfless (looking at you Johnson). Even Jordan tried to do too much last night and was a turnover machine. We didn’t handle their half court trap last night, learning lesson. And when we step out of conference we will run into teams that have length and height. It’s been our bugaboo in the NCAAs as well. But I think in conference play we will be alright. We are at worst a .500 team in conference. The true measure of this team will be in those games that will move the needle and make you a 12-6 or 11-7. Those grind out gut checks games. Until then we have many areas we need to improve on. Certain guys need to buy in (Johnson and Grant) Others like Nickleberry just need to get use to D1 ball and gain confidence. Hardnett needs to stay out of foul trouble. Yes much of that is bc he is playing out of position. These 4 players are vital bc they are essentially our bench. A stable of UB has been bench production.

I didn't look at it that way, Brook. I just think 92 is getting peoples' thoughts on where they feel we would have been if Coach Oats was still here. Personally, I think we'd be at pretty much the same record. I will say that the title is a bit misleading. I clicked on it (in anger) to see why 92 thought that we would have won last night if Oats was still the coach. What I found was something altogether different.

I am not sure how you read "coaching change" into this thread, especially after what was provided in the last sentence above. At any rate, the purpose of this thread (if you read the other one) was to temper expectations. My conjecture is that Oats' would be struggling with a UB team this year that had the same returning guys and his recruits, but didn't have the five seniors that graduated. In other words, maybe we still have only five wins. I wonder what others think.

What is the point of this thread? Eight games in and you are basically looking for a change of coaches already.

I selected six, because, I feel with Oats, we would have found a way to win the game with Dartmouth.

Here are some charts from barttorvik.com on offensive and defensive efficiency. The first set of charts is for Nate Oats first year (20-15 overall record including 7-6 OOC, 10-8 MAC) What I see is some difficulties early in the year on offensive side, with defense generally stable (some ups and downs - the poor defensive performance is the aforementioned game against W. Michigan. Here are the charts through 7 games (does not include Vanderbilt - which will certainly be poor performance on both counts). It is hard to make a direct comparison because first set of charts are full year but you do see some poor offensive showings in early part of season. However after poor initial offensive showing in game 1, there were generally improved performances. The early season defensive performance is similar to 2015-16. So we have to keep up the defensive intensity and look to improve on offense, and I think we will be poised to be where we need to be in March.

No reason not to give the team time to develop. As I’ve said before it took both Hamilton and Conner quite a long time and into January before they started playing well. But Squire’s opinion isn’t totally out of whack considering obvious flaws that are mentioned by so many in this thread.

I agree. But in order for some not to completely jump off the ship, this may need to be the case.

I love how some are giving up on this team now. March is still many months away. We aren’t the favorites to win the MAC. We have nothing to lose. It all comes down to Cleveland. But until then growth is the most important thing. Today was are taking our lumps. But wow to give up on this team now geez.

Hardnett has given this team nothing this season. How did he get P5 looks?

Why are there so many saying that this team is loaded? This team sucks. Come on: They are going to get toasted in the MAC.

Johnson/Grant/Nickelberry/Hardnett not being ready has really hurt this team. Freeman/Robinson coming in will be a much better influx than we got this year

I don't know... "That would have been an 'and 1' if it wasn't blocked' was pretty bad if you ask me. But now to the game... we knew this year would be a development year. Let's put the first half behind and work to make a game of this in the second half.

Whitesell needs to go off on our guys in the locker room, sloppy uninspired play.

You are right. And you are wrong. When the facilities are insufficient to meet demand for both students and athletes then you have a lose lose situation. An investment in a first class recreation center is a must and way over due. I have seen beautiful rec centers at many schools. UB is extremely late to the game. Lastly I hope you’re right that the inertia is finally moving in the right direction. And if it is to be done then do it right and make it a marketing effort to to attract top notch students.

If you guys think these chumps are better than Paul Peck you are out of your mind.

You can see the talent we have but they are playing sloppy and giving Vandy the lead.

Paul Peck is the same way calling the UB games, it may be annoying but it’s hard to expect any less tonight

They are hometown broadcasters. What do you guys expect?

The color commentator is much worse than the play by play but both are not good. It is not appropriate to yell "MY MAN" after a basket.

These refs are calling the all the ticky tak Micky mouse garbage.

The starting lineup is as good as any in this conference, and they can compete P5. But holy cow when Hardnett/Nickelberry/Grant come in its a tire fire. Segu hasn't been great lately, but is our only usable bench player. SO when he is off, UB has no bench

Gabe Grant in, and now is -5 on the floor. He is a momentum killer. We need to limit his minutes as much as possible

This is embarrassingly bad color commentary for a power conference school.

Definitely raising my hand in saying we werent talking about playing zone all the time. Simply pointing out that if, for some reason, our usual aggressive man to man doesn't work, this team has crumbled multiple times against zone. I also think there is a 0% chance we do it, but it doesn't hurt to bring it up as our opponents weakness

https://www.easttexasmatters.com/news/college-basketball-players-come-cheer-for-boy-at-basketball-game-after-meeting-grandma-on-plane/ I just came across this article and thought it was such an awesome thing for 2 of our boys to do. This is how you get a good following from the community, which in my opinion translates to a better team overall.

If it were me I would have waited one more season. With the class Nate had and the returning players, it would have been a MONSTER year. He'd have his pick of gigs. I just wish he laid off the "I love it here" talk if he didn't mean it. We all know schools like UB are stepping stones, but show a little respect and don't blow smoke. The way Alabama went down made me sour. (Hodgson's behavior really upset me.) It's not even that great a job outside the paycheck. But Nate had a foot on the plane to Tuscaloosa before the clock expired on Texas Tech. Like I said, I won't shed any tears if they turn on him already.

I see both points of view here. I'd consider zone more if we were considerably outmatched talent wise or if this one game meant more. I don't think this is a spot where we need to be changing our gameplan though. Our team has a bunch of good guards that can stay in front of people and we lack the length to maximize the benefits of a zone. If we need to change our whole defensive philosophy for a team that's grading out as a mid tier MAC team on the analytics sites then we're in for a long year lol. Anyway this game doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of our postseason hopes, it should be an opportunity for the team to grow in their identity. All that said it would be fun to see Whitesell sprinkle in the zone during ATOs if nothing else than to keep their inexperienced coach on his toes.

Well that’s a losing mindset lol. We’re not suggesting they switch permanently to a zone defense, we’re suggesting they take advantage of a very obvious weakness in their opponents offensive scheme. Good teams game plan for their opponents and come out ready to do what it takes to get the win, and if that means playing a zone for small portions of this one game then so be it.