Jim Whitesell and UB Part Ways

[John]

2 hours ago, Chet said:

Easy to dump on Whitesell and Co. after that performance. I think this team will be a work in progress and will be fun to watch as the season continues. Will probably be ups and downs. But that had to be one of the worst performances in my 20+ years going to games at Alumni. Whitesell is not a very good coach. He's been a mediocre head coach his entire career. I assume he will continue to be that.

I think he is a good assistant coach just not a good head coach. But there are very good assistant coaches all over the landscape. Would love to know what Whitesell and staff are drawing up for the players because there was nothing that worked against JMU. Whatever the plays that were drawn up if the players don’t hit the shots or make the right play it will look like it looked against JMU. Wil just have to see how these next few games go before the team comes back home. Go Bulls!!!

[UB Horns Up]

This is all on UB Blue and White for not coming up with the money to hire a good basketball coach after Nate Oats left they choose to reset the basketball coaches salary. I have zero belief UB is serious about big time athletics with decisions like that. Jim Whitesell needs to go UB Bulls basketball is the Buffalo suburban version of Reggie Witherspoon Canisius Golden Griffins basketball in the city. The St Bonaventure Bonnies are going to destroy UB Bulls if UB can’t compete against James Madison in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[UBinMD]

3 hours ago, UB Horns Up said:

This is all on UB Blue and White for not coming up with the money to hire a good basketball coach after Nate Oats left they choose to reset the basketball coaches salary. I have zero belief UB is serious about big time athletics with decisions like that. Jim Whitesell needs to go UB Bulls basketball is the Buffalo suburban version of Reggie Witherspoon Canisius Golden Griffins basketball in the city. The St Bonaventure Bonnies are going to destroy UB Bulls if UB can’t compete against James Madison in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Canisius just took out the Bonnies so I’m not sure about that. It is sad the money went down, you should build plateaus and then continue to move up from there. It’s a shame 

[UBinMD]

Hurley and ASU lost to Texas Southern. Not sure how his seat is not in flames. Certainly have not not performed well in his tenure. 119-100 overall and 60-67 in conference. 

[UBinMD]

7 hours ago, Erie County said:

that's something. I'd still take him back. He was perfect for mid major basketball

Seems like a guy that is good for 4-5 years and then his style grates on people. It would be nice if we could find basketball and football coaches that can live on $750k per year, be a program builder and truly love the school. Guys like Homer Drew at Valpo.

I guess that’s why I still pull for Whitesell, I want him to be that guy. Bring in quality young guys, he seems to have a dedicated staff, our portal losses have been minimal. If we could get the X and O part along with consistent execution, that would be great. Be top 4 MAC program year in and year out.

Edited November 14, 2022 by UBinMD

[BrooklynBull]

40 minutes ago, UBinMD said:

Seems like a guy that is good for 4-5 years and then his style grates on people. It would be nice if we could find basketball and football coaches that can live on $750k per year, be a program builder and truly love the school. Guys like Homer Drew at Valpo.

I guess that’s why I still pull for Whitesell, I want him to be that guy. Bring in quality young guys, he seems to have a dedicated staff, our portal losses have been minimal. If we could get the X and O part along with consistent execution, that would be great. Be top 4 MAC program year in and year out.

They all can live on that figure.  But if they have five ore years on a contract, they are guaranteed $3,750,000.00 guaranteed.  But if someone offers nearly that much per year for five years, it becomes difficult to say no t the offer.

What would you do if someone guaranteed you four times your current salary for the next five years?

[everlast2504]

1 hour ago, UBinMD said:

Seems like a guy that is good for 4-5 years and then his style grates on people. It would be nice if we could find basketball and football coaches that can live on $750k per year, be a program builder and truly love the school. Guys like Homer Drew at Valpo.

I guess that’s why I still pull for Whitesell, I want him to be that guy. Bring in quality young guys, he seems to have a dedicated staff, our portal losses have been minimal. If we could get the X and O part along with consistent execution, that would be great. Be top 4 MAC program year in and year out.

We had that guy for basketball. We were generally above .500, competed for a MACC every few years. We fired Reggie and moved on. $750k is not gonna do it. We need to be close to double to make a coach comfortable enough to stay.

 

[UBinMD]

10 minutes ago, everlast2504 said:

We had that guy for basketball. We were generally above .500, competed for a MACC every few years. We fired Reggie and moved on. $750k is not gonna do it. We need to be close to double to make a coach comfortable enough to stay.

 

I'm not talking about a Reggie guy, I'm taking about a Mark Few guy. Mark Few has been at Gonzaga since 1989 when he was a GA. He turned Gonzaga into a good job, it didn't start that way. It was a crappy conference too, that became good. A few years ago he was only at $1.8 million, the guy has a record of 658-129. Bill Self gets $10.184 million.

I get it, it's a pipe dream, everyone will jump, but what is the point of mid-major programs? They just can't compete. Chis Collins at Northwestern is the 25th highest paid MBB Coach at $3.262 million, why? His record is 133-150. It's a business decision by Northwestern, they know big time athletics is part of the deal to bring the profile up. They get their asses handed to them regularly, have gotten better, make noise once in awhile, but are we expecting them to compete year in, year out? Fred Hoiberg at Nebraska is getting $3.5 million for a 24-67 record. Pittsburg is paying Jeff Capel $3.53 million for a 51-69 record.

The system just sucks and some schools see athletics as important for optics regardless of your competitiveness. Likely we will never be there, so my dream would be a guy that wants to build the program and hopefully grow with it. I realized that is highly unlikely.

[ubbulls98]

I don't care who we get.  Just get RID of him....

[DaBulls99]

6 minutes ago, ubbulls98 said:

I don't care who we get.  Just get RID of him....

All it takes is money. Go ahead and write that check. 

[Tee4three]

If the James Madison game becomes a theme of the season I think everyone will be on the same page

However while that game sucked, the team fought and put forth effort throughout the entire game. That tells me they trust and believe in the coaching staff

It was a team that's played 1 game together vs a team returning 4 starters couple that with a putrid shooting night and you get a massive blow out 

[Chet]

The Department of Athletics has fallen greatly from their golden era. It definitely shows. There are so many "fans" that stopped coming to games. Season tickets for basketball are down considerably from last year IMO.

[UBinMD]

1 hour ago, Chet said:

The Department of Athletics has fallen greatly from their golden era. It definitely shows. There are so many "fans" that stopped coming to games. Season tickets for basketball are down considerably from last year IMO.

We have had ADs go to Auburn, UConn (then Michigan), UCF (now Tennessee) coaches at ASU, Alabama, Syracuse, Kansas, Nebraska. That’s in 10-15 years +/-? We have had players transfer to the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, SEC. If any department bats 1.000 God bless them. This may not be the #1 group we have ever had, but keep in mind what people from the outside see. The guys that tried to push UB to the top sports franchise in the the state got slammed because it didn’t have enough Buffalo in the mix. Don’t you think that makes things a little harder when you are trying to get a plan together to move things forward. You can’t have it both ways.

[clodney]

A few years back we picked up a kid that I thought was one of the best ball handlers I had ever seen in the Blue and White however he couldn't finish at the rim. He played his ass off, super tough defense, and then he'd dribble through 3 guys and miss the damn layup. He just couldn't buy baskets. That player was Davonte Jordan.

This current UB squad looks like its made up of a roster of Davonte Jordans. They play hard, force turnovers, and all seem to know how to slash to the rim. They just don't know how to finish. If we don't have any deadly outside shooters then we better figure out how to make shots in the paint. Davonte showed that it can be done since he got better every year at finishing shots. Hopefully Whitesell finds a way to develop this squad as well. 

[UB Horns Up]

UB Bulls needs to fire Jim Whitesell and hire Bryan Hodgson for head coach from Alabama’s basketball staff and correct that hiring mistake in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited November 15, 2022 by UB Horns Up

[DocCas86]

No question UB MBB has regressed since Whitesell took over.  In my opinion, this was inevitable when Oats left for Alabama.  Could we have paid more and ended up with a better coach, possibly, but not a given.  At this point, what are the prospects of winning MAC with Whitesell, my instinct says 1 in 10, compared to a ideal (and realistic) goal of 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. 

Whitesell's contract runs though end of 24-25 season, buyout after this year is 500k dropping 100k each year.  You can't ignore fincial considerations.  This year is a rebuilding year.  At this point in time, you have prospect that team develops and is competing for MAC next year.  At the end of this season, you have to assess progress or lack thereof, to determine if worth 500k to start over.  I expect the prospects for 23-24 will be good enough that he remains through 23-24, but if we have more JMUs this season, then maybe time to cut the ties.  Hoping the team plays well enough that Whitesell gets to stay another year. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by DocCas86

[promotherobot]

9 hours ago, DocCas86 said:

No question UB MBB has regressed since Whitesell took over.  In my opinion, this was inevitable when Oats left for Alabama.  Could we have paid more and ended up with a better coach, possibly, but not a given.  At this point, what are the prospects of winning MAC with Whitesell, my instinct says 1 in 10, compared to a ideal (and realistic) goal of 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. 

Whitesell's contract runs though end of 24-25 season, buyout after this year is 500k dropping 100k each year.  You can't ignore fincial considerations.  This year is a rebuilding year.  At this point in time, you have prospect that team develops and is competing for MAC next year.  At the end of this season, you have to assess progress or lack thereof, to determine if worth 500k to start over.  I expect the prospects for 23-24 will be good enough that he remains through 23-24, but if we have more JMUs this season, then maybe time to cut the ties.  Hoping the team plays well enough that Whitesell gets to stay another year. 

The transfer portal changes everything. You can count on keeping any class of players together more than a year. I have no idea what it's going to be like for small and mid major schools.

Edited November 15, 2022 by promotherobot

[Tee4three]

I'm still intrigued by where this season will go, through the first 2 games I saw an engaged coaching staff from whitesell on down the entire game. I hadn't seen that before

Strangely even after the ugly home loss to James Madison, I'm more confident now the team is heading in a positive direction than at any point before in Jim's coaching tenure

[121Merrimac]

It has to be difficult to transition from a player’s assist coach, to their HC.  Used to be the good cop, but suddenly need to be the bad cop so to speak.  A great majority of this years class only knows JW as the HC, and there are no previous relationship styles to try to maintain.  

[1975]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:50 PM, Chet said:

The Department of Athletics has fallen greatly from their golden era. It definitely shows. There are so many "fans" that stopped coming to games. Season tickets for basketball are down considerably from last year IMO.

I’m a “fan” but I want a better experience for my money. Arena amenities are substandard (lobby too small, too few rest rooms, slow concession service), parking less than ideal, and driving out of campus is maddening due to campus police “controlling” traffic. Having said all that, I’m in attendance more often than the 7,500 students who live within walking distance from Alumni.

[Bluebird96]

20 hours ago, 1975 said:

I’m in attendance more often than the 7,500 students who live within walking distance from Alumni.

As a UB student in the early to mid 90’s it was always frustrating to see the low student turnout for games. The best attended games were when “bigger” teams of the day would visit like Miami, UMass or BC. I always got the sense most students didn’t care much about UB teams unless we were winning or when those bigger name schools came into Alumni. Seems the University hasn’t been able to move the needle much over the past 30 years despite the program becoming a consistent winner in the last 10 years and even the early 2000’s under Reggie. The exception was the men’s dream season of 2018-19. Just doesn’t seem like it should be so hard to fill a 6,700 seat arena with 25,000+ undergrads with several thousand of them within walking distance.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Bluebird96

[ubbulls98]

This is for another topic maybe, but the attendance issue will stay where it is unless we are putting a winning product together (like with Oats) or moving to a bigger conference.  My mid 90s days (go Sixth Man Club) have many memories of basically empty arena, unless we were playing VALPO.  Things really didn't improve until we jumped to the MAC.  And heck, back in the 90s the only time you'd see a packed gym was during graduation or Midnight Madness.  I don't see this season doing anything to help with attendance.  

Sidenote, I'd love to know the average attendance at UB basketball games when we were in the Mid Con compared to the MAC.  

[1975]

5 hours ago, ubbulls98 said:

This is for another topic maybe, but the attendance issue will stay where it is unless we are putting a winning product together (like with Oats) or moving to a bigger conference.  My mid 90s days (go Sixth Man Club) have many memories of basically empty arena, unless we were playing VALPO.  Things really didn't improve until we jumped to the MAC.  And heck, back in the 90s the only time you'd see a packed gym was during graduation or Midnight Madness.  I don't see this season doing anything to help with attendance.  

Sidenote, I'd love to know the average attendance at UB basketball games when we were in the Mid Con compared to the MAC.  

To my understanding, moving MBB out of the MAC would likely mean leaving the conference entirely for all other sports. I doubt UB would ever do that. 

[JFH47]

22 hours ago, 1975 said:

To my understanding, moving MBB out of the MAC would likely mean leaving the conference entirely for all other sports. I doubt UB would ever do that. 

 

[shayman30]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:46 PM, UB Horns Up said:

UB Bulls needs to fire Jim Whitesell and hire Bryan Hodgson for head coach from Alabama’s basketball staff and correct that hiring mistake in my opinion. UB Horns Up! Go Bulls! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I could not agree with the quote above more. In UB's current position you need always try to hire the "next big name". Reggie made the program competitive but they made the right move bringing in Hurley to take the next step. They then hired Oats which was obviously a great hire. Hodgson should have been followed Oats as the next young exciting coach but instead they went with Whitesell who seems like a good guy but has been around the block and doesn't seem like the recruiter that Oats and Hurley were. 

The other critique I would bring to the table is why haven't they parlay the football and basketball success they have had into a jump to a bigger conference?