121Merrimac Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, DocCas86 said: ... some great insult .., no insult, just after so many years, a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB92 Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 20 hours ago, 121Merrimac said: no insult, just after so many years, a surprise. It was actually a joke (i.e. "about figures and graphs"). We are all anonymous (mostly) on this board, but I am certainly a fan of analytics and this sort of analysis -- to a point. I think the disjoint comes in trying to capture what is difficult (impossible?) to capture through data. No chart, figure or table is going to help me understand: why no one came back to the ball when Williams was struggling to pass the ball in at the end of the Ohio game. why Williams shot a 3 at the end of that game (I forget against who) when we needed a 2 in order to tie. why the team kept playing crappy to start out several games in a row why Whitesell, through his own admission in the quotes he provided after the game, could not get his team motivated to play at the level he would have liked against (supposedly) inferior opponents. I am all for charts, figures, tables and analytics. And while they can help you understand some things, it can't help you understand everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabulls Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Anyone know who we are targeting for recruits, we are going to need a guard, center and small forward for next season. We seem to be going the juco/transfer route. I can’t see us land Lightfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
121Merrimac Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 32 minutes ago, UB92 said: It was actually a joke ... My apologies, that wasn’t the first time I have interrupted a written comment incorrectly, and (sadly) it probably won’t be my last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocCas86 Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 hour ago, UB92 said: It was actually a joke (i.e. "about figures and graphs"). We are all anonymous (mostly) on this board, but I am certainly a fan of analytics and this sort of analysis -- to a point. I think the disjoint comes in trying to capture what is difficult (impossible?) to capture through data. No chart, figure or table is going to help me understand: why no one came back to the ball when Williams was struggling to pass the ball in at the end of the Ohio game. why Williams shot a 3 at the end of that game (I forget against who) when we needed a 2 in order to tie. why the team kept playing crappy to start out several games in a row why Whitesell, through his own admission in the quotes he provided after the game, could not get his team motivated to play at the level he would have liked against (supposedly) inferior opponents. I am all for charts, figures, tables and analytics. And while they can help you understand some things, it can't help you understand everything. I agree that no figure or table will explain those lapses during the season - but what they can do is give you a broader perspective on how extensive the lapses are and how much they impact the overall results. Meaning you don't dwell too much on the trees and forget the forest. With respect to a couple of points that you make above - it seems they have addressed the crappy start and motivation. The bench is now very animated and providing energy to the players on the court. We will see if that continues tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukbro00 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 On 3/3/2021 at 8:01 PM, Erie County said: Not hard to get this point. When someone that tries to throw the it's all quiet line at you, ask them how recruiting looks and who is going to play guard with Segu next year? It's literally empty. We will see if they don't get bounced by BG/Miam/Ohio next week before gloating about potentially finishing 4th-5th in the regular season again. As said by others above, we don't know who is leaving and who is staying, not sure why you are so negative. IF all seniors leave, we'll still have Maceo and Malik at guard to go along with Segu, PLUS 5 open scholarships to get a grad transfer. Cupboard is far from bare. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBinMD Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 You guys want Hurley back? He may be on the block soon. ASU got stomped by an 11-12 Utah team today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrabukes Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 47 minutes ago, Erie County said: It's not negative, its the facts of the roster makeup and not being able to recruit guards. Is Malik playing? Also, Jack and Segu would have a final year. Then what? The 2022 roster: Hardnett (SR) Skogman (JR) Williamson (SO) Gallion (SR) Zachary? (SR) That's it, that's the roster. So now the makings of a good coach is dependent upon the potential roster for 2 years from now? 2 years ago, how many of the current players were on the current roster in our top 8 minutes played? Graves, Segu, Williams, Brock. You named 5 players above. It's pretty likely that 3-4 of those guys will be in the top 8 and 4-5 will be guys that we've never even heard of yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, UBinMD said: You guys want Hurley back? He may be on the block soon. ASU got stomped by an 11-12 Utah team today. ASU isn’t firing Hurley anytime soon. If anything he will leave them before they fire him. They’ve been ravaged by injuries this year. Last year they would’ve made the tournament. His job is safe. Just a bad year. Side note, ASU assistant head coach just got the head coaching job at NIU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire17 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, UBinMD said: You guys want Hurley back? He may be on the block soon. ASU got stomped by an 11-12 Utah team today. It, personally, would only be fun if Hurley came back and the Bull’s program cratered. He’s not coming back, but take a look at ASU vs Buffalo ever since he left here. Buffalo has been a better team except for possibly 2 out of the 6 years, including this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Erie County said: It's not negative, its the facts of the roster makeup and not being able to recruit guards. Is Malik playing? Also, Jack and Segu would have a final year. Then what? The 2022 roster: Hardnett (SR) Skogman (JR) Williamson (SO) Gallion (SR) Zachary? (SR) That's it, that's the roster. I'll take a positive out look and say that between hardnett skogman and williamson, that is a very solid foundation considering the improvements from both hardnett and skogman this season and that williamson is highly touted With the new transfer rules it actually may be beneficial to have open more spots as kids will more likely want to go play with friends allowing us the benefit of being an available destination But yeah the roster build and whats here in 2 years isn't optimal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, Tee4three said: I'll take a positive out look and say that between hardnett skogman and williamson, that is a very solid foundation considering the improvements from both hardnett and skogman this season and that williamson is highly touted With the new transfer rules it actually may be beneficial to have open more spots as kids will more likely want to go play with friends allowing us the benefit of being an available destination But yeah the roster build and whats here in 2 years isn't optimal Overall for next season roster wise we are in good shape. Mballa, Williams and Segu should all be back. We will have depth at forward. What we need are two things. A PG who can come in and contribute and eventually grow into the future starting PG. And we need another shooter that can space the floor. Idk what Zachary’s status is. Same goes for Brewton. Jack is a nice addition but we need another guard or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBoy Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 When we talk about recruiting are we that far behind other schools in our league or has recruiting kind of been quiet across the board due to the pandemic? I know it has now been close to a year since any coach could travel to watch a kid play and close to a year since any kid could make a visit on campus. Also if you add the idea in that this is a free year for everyone as a coach do you even completely know how many available scholarships you have for the future? This post is not in defense of our staff as much as it is just a general inquiry on the state of recruiting in Mid Major college basketball right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 9 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said: Overall for next season roster wise we are in good shape. Mballa, Williams and Segu should all be back. We will have depth at forward. What we need are two things. A PG who can come in and contribute and eventually grow into the future starting PG. And we need another shooter that can space the floor. Idk what Zachary’s status is. Same goes for Brewton. Jack is a nice addition but we need another guard or two. For next season thats what ub is missing from being a very good I'd even say top 25 team. (PG depth and a floor spacer) I'd imagine brewton is back next season as that was the plan originally. Zachary who knows but I would plan on him not being here - just too risky to count on at the moment but that can change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB05 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Erie County said: So four of our highest recruited players ever as Fresh/soph? Yeah, three of those are going to hit for you. That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is zero youth on this team. You can keep trying senior transfer guards and keeping missing I guess. The underclassman recruiting of this regime has been terrible. We are also assuming they don't lose anyone to a P5 program. No youth? Are we going to ignore the strides that Hardnett and Skogman made this year? And Who are we actually losing this offseason? Graves and Bertram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrabukes Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Erie County said: They are not hitting on recruits. 141th in 2019 135th in 2020 (inflated even this high by Robinson) unranked so far in 2021 (Williamson, Jack + 4 scholarships) For reference: Oats had the 77th best class, 1st in the mac in 2018, 88th best class, 1st in the mac in 2017 This lead to all of the players who are getting minutes now. Segu, Williams, Graves. Hardnett was an Oats recruit as well who was already planning on coming and kept his transfer due to coach JQ. What was CJ ranked? How about Caruthers? "Rankings" only mean so much. As much as you want to knock this staff, most, if not all of the players who were here last season have improved this season. That should be worth something. Being worried about having signees in March is relatively meaningless. This staff had 0 two years ago in April, yet got a solid group (mballa, hardnett, Nickelberry, skogman, gallion). Last year they had signees at this time (1 never showed up and 1 didn't make good choices). They'll find players. There's plenty out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire17 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 All the Bulls need is a mobile big man...6’10” 245 lbs who’s agile, can defend the rim, and has a nice touch inside and outside, and a couple of 6’3” - 6’5” 200 lb guards who can defend and get in the lane or bomb from 3, and a 6’7” slasher who doesn’t foul, hits inside, mid range jumpers, occasional 3 point bombs, and lock down defense. No reason this can’t happen. But first they have to kick some butt this year. Buffalo - the AlphaGonzaga and the OmegaDuke of the MAC! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikescherrer8 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Erie County said: They are not hitting on recruits. 141th in 2019 135th in 2020 (inflated even this high by Robinson) unranked so far in 2021 (Williamson, Jack + 4 scholarships) For reference: Oats had the 77th best class, 1st in the mac in 2018, 88th best class, 1st in the mac in 2017 This lead to all of the players who are getting minutes now. Segu, Williams, Graves. Hardnett was an Oats recruit as well who was already planning on coming and kept his transfer due to coach JQ. You need to settle down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocCas86 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 15 hours ago, Erie County said: They are not hitting on recruits. 141th in 2019 135th in 2020 (inflated even this high by Robinson) unranked so far in 2021 (Williamson, Jack + 4 scholarships) For reference: Oats had the 77th best class, 1st in the mac in 2018, 88th best class, 1st in the mac in 2017 This lead to all of the players who are getting minutes now. Segu, Williams, Graves. Hardnett was an Oats recruit as well who was already planning on coming and kept his transfer due to coach JQ. First I would state that I am not using rankings as an absolute measure of recruits. However, since the point was made using rankings, I am providing the details about recruits in the Whitesell era for comparison. Note I have included a list of highest ranked UB recruits per 247sports, as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 If segu williams and mballa all stick around next year, there should be no shortage of transfers that want to play here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooleyBull06 Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 44 minutes ago, Tee4three said: If segu williams and mballa all stick around next year, there should be no shortage of transfers that want to play here If Segu, Williams and Mballa stick around the drop off shouldn't be that crazy. I'm a broken record at this point saying we need guard depth. PG and SG. Plain and simple. In saying that its not a shot Whitesell and recruiting. Recruiting is very cyclical. Winning the MAC tournament this week will go a looong way to helping recruiting. Obviously a pandemic for 2 recruiting cycles hasn't helped. Whitesell isn't going anywhere and to sustain success we need to keep recruiting at a high level. And a level ahead of the rest of the MAC teams. Gallion taking a big leap next year would help greatly. But he didn't progress much this year so thats a question mark. But yes I would like 4 year players. Our last few transfers...Grant, Johnson, Zachary and Brewton haven't been stellar. So overall mixed bag. Obviously Whitesell is doing it with Oats hold overs. But his success will lean heavy on his ability to recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee4three Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 hours ago, DooleyBull06 said: If Segu, Williams and Mballa stick around the drop off shouldn't be that crazy. I'm a broken record at this point saying we need guard depth. PG and SG. Plain and simple. In saying that its not a shot Whitesell and recruiting. Recruiting is very cyclical. Winning the MAC tournament this week will go a looong way to helping recruiting. Obviously a pandemic for 2 recruiting cycles hasn't helped. Whitesell isn't going anywhere and to sustain success we need to keep recruiting at a high level. And a level ahead of the rest of the MAC teams. Gallion taking a big leap next year would help greatly. But he didn't progress much this year so thats a question mark. But yes I would like 4 year players. Our last few transfers...Grant, Johnson, Zachary and Brewton haven't been stellar. So overall mixed bag. Obviously Whitesell is doing it with Oats hold overs. But his success will lean heavy on his ability to recruit. Gotta go all in next year so I think it will be heavy on transfers because it seems this staff likes to bring freshman along slowly Losing graves will hurt but the growth of the returnees, joined by Jack and a healthy brewton I think ub will be better next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeseph Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 I’m sorry for saying we don’t show up prepared im sorry for saying we don’t show up motivated im sorry for saying we saying we don’t run a real offense im sorry for saying we don’t shoot FTs well im sorry for saying we turn the ball over too much im sorry for saying we have questionable shot selection im sorry for saying we falter in important games im sorry for saying the obvious keys to the game trip us up im sorry for saying that a lack of in-game adjustments has killed us I’m sorry for saying we come up short based on what our talent is capable of im sorry for saying one of our most talented players declined in his last 2 years im sorry for thinking that much of this lies on the shoulders of the coach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB05 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jeseph said: I’m sorry for saying we don’t show up prepared im sorry for saying we don’t show up motivated im sorry for saying we saying we don’t run a real offense im sorry for saying we don’t shoot FTs well im sorry for saying we turn the ball over too much im sorry for saying we have questionable shot selection im sorry for saying we falter in important games im sorry for saying the obvious keys to the game trip us up im sorry for saying that a lack of in-game adjustments has killed us I’m sorry for saying we come up short based on what our talent is capable of im sorry for saying one of our most talented players declined in his last 2 years im sorry for thinking that much of this lies on the shoulders of the coach Spent a lot of time pouring out that salt, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeseph Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 1 minute ago, UB05 said: Spent a lot of time pouring out that salt, eh? Which part was wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.